policy on cel thievery

Until today, there was no policy.

However, it was bound to happen eventually. The policy from here on out is seniority rule. If two members have some sort of disagreement about cel ownership, the burden of proof falls on the newer member.

What really worries me is the eventual gimp that tries to *sell* something that isn't his/hers. I will be personally offended if this ever occurs. Geocities is too busy to hunt people down, but then again Geocities isn't run by a cel collector. It won't take very long for us to lock in a physical location for an individual who attempts such foolishness. Keep in mind that selling a cel that isn't yours over the internet would qualify as interstate wire/mail fraud, a quite serious crime.

Sorry to be so mean-spirited today.

Cheers,

jn

This is a good place. It started out that way a while back. Most people here are sincere collectors that are happy to have found some web space dedicated to their hobby. I was and still am grateful for all of the effort, time, and creativity that Jason has and put into this site.

Now, the pranksters, liars, phonies, wannabe?s, and thieves have found out about this place which is relatively easy to access and easy to post images on. (The strength of the site, and also it's weakness perhaps)

Now these "darkside celebrities" think that everyone is dumb and/or just plain stupid enough to believe in their facades; Their fake galleries and their fake or stolen cel images and artworks.
Most of us can tell, but we must warn the others that don't. Or eliminate the roaches while we can.

Because in reality, someone could in fact be deceived, given that, most galleries here are indeed legitimate. It would take just one uninformed soul to fall into such a trap. So there is some danger.

Some just relish in the fact that they can do "something" annoying just for the sake of showing off (butt-4-brains) themselves and their friends what jerks they can be. They test the "patience of the system" with no disregard or respect for others personal property or respect for what this site is used to represent. They are bored and have dismal spare time on their hands and access to the Internet. So, they come to this place to play and "make a site" out of thin air--
And become a "member".

And then come the real criminals. Out for a fast buck in what they might think is "an easy mark". Let it be known that people are vigilant and watching, and these problems will decline. Unfortunately, it is like when the tourists find out about the "Island Paradise"...the once beautiful, untouched beaches, start attracting the wrong crowds ruining things for everyone.

We that care can help to search out and weed out these little devils of mischief and report these nuts to Jason. Take a look around. Look at some of these so-called "galleries".. You will be surprised that not all of 250 + galleries that are here, are what they claim to be.
E.

That was a little too dramatic for me. We're not bringing democracy to impoverished countries or anything. We're just collecting overhead transparencies with paint slapped on them.

The bottom line is, I don't like cleaning up after the <1% who flagrantly try to weasel something extra out of something that's already free.

From my experience with this site, I've found that cel collectors are overwhelmingly polite and friendly folks. There's only 4 galleries out of 350+ on the ban list after a year of operation. Let's hope it stays that way for a while.

And one minor side note, while I appreciate the compliments about the site, each and every one of you has a right to make an argument against a standing policy or suggest a new one. Heck, *I* probably hate more things about this site than anyone else. I get this eerie feeling that everyone's afraid to disagree with me. Don't be shy, I won't turn around and shut your gallery down if you say something mean. I've got quite a study backbone for honest, well-formed criticism.

Expressing negative opinions makes this site better. Just a thought.


jn

Jn,

I disagree with you! (Is it a first?)

I find it not "dramatic" to point out what a lot of people that collect what you call as "over-head transparencies" fear--that is being ripped-off. No that's right we're not saving "demoracy"?, yeah okay but---
Taking the problem too lightly, IMHO is to ask for more of it.

Again to disagree--with you..^-^,

I don't think that just "paint slapped on acetate" is appropriate language, when a lot of collectors consider cels and this medium as legitimate "art" both rare and prized objects that they spend hundreds and/or thousands of dollars to secure, and thus collect, albeit it's a hobby. And that statement coming from "you", the "holy" RS CREATOR of a site for cel collectors somehow rings strange in my ears ^-^

Ask some other collectors how they feel about spending hundreds of dollars on "just paint slapped on plastic". I dare you.

I understand you not wanting to police the place and deal with the few scoundrels, but anytime you deal with the public you ask for dealing with DA-PUBLIC..even characters like me ^-^.
Hey, you started this message board stuff, remember?

(BTW,What is the "time limit" for writing a message anyway, before being booted and having to reenter my password again? ;P)

Maybe you should delegate some of your authority and let some RS "freaks" handle these very rare site happenings- Just a suggestion.

But--I am no drama-queen..I'll pass on that one to someone else, Im out--
E

Er, holy is what I don't want. That's just... weird, man. Do not worship walruses. You will smell funny afterwards.

The question of pop art:

The way I see it, from a purely *technical* standpoint, most cels are crap. Most of *my* cels are crap.

So, where's the value?

Art is context. What makes a production cel different from a beautifully made fancel? One thing alone: the production cel went under a camera. Nothing more. There are some great fancel artists out there, but by and large we all prefer original production art. Almost every piece of "valuable" art made in the last 200+ years has adhered to this principle. Paint smudges on dinner plates by Picasso and large canvases consisting only of black paint commonly found in modern art museums come to mind.

I've started to realize what a no-brainer it is for seasoned artists to draw cels since I've tried to pick up some traditional art skills over the past year or so. (read: attempting to learn to draw freehand) With five or six years experience, I could see any Joe Average off the street churning out most of my cel collection.

Ever seen pictures from inside an anime studio? It looks just a bunch of underpaid guys churning out drawing after drawing. Certainly not the pinnacle of handcrafted excellence we might imagine when plopping down hundreds of dollars on a single piece. Sure, each one is different. However, we're buying into this notion that our cels are not a product of mass-production assembly line mentality. It's just not true. Maybe in the Disney of the 1940s everyone was a master craftsman, but it just doesn't seem to be the case.

What's even worse is that it seems that we're paying more for art with relatively lackluster framing and composition. A portrait shot of a character looking dead on into the camera, centered, is actually one of the easier things to draw well. The ability to express emotion through body movement, something you see so much of in Miyazaki films, is where the real "art" of animation seems to come into play. For the most part, though, it's not what we're interested in. We like cels with lots of paint.

http://sensei.rubberslug.com - Bill takes a more dynamic approach to choosing which pieces to acquire. I like this.

Oh, and one more thing. I was going to delegate, but I haven't gotten around to programming an easy front-end that an admin could use. When I do a lot of things on the site, I go directly into the database. Delegation will probably come with the next wave of updates to the software.

jn

ps - i think sessions time out after 30 minutes. not sure. could be less. what you can do is submit, then it'll force you to log in. Log in. It's buggy so it'll try to make you log in again. Ignore it, and press back on your browser. Submit the message again. It'll work... I think. Gotta get around to saving login information.