Cels destroyed during shipping?

The assumption in common law in most US jurisdictions is that sellers are responsible until the point that an item is shipped FOB (free on board) unless otherwise contracted for. In other words, the seller is responsible for an item only until it reaches the shipping company (FOB is an extension of standard business practice; at some point, it essentially became an assumption under the law as well). There are various things that might complicate this in these situations; user agreements on auction sites, the specifics of auction listings, and possibly the international aspects (Japanese law may have a different assumption about seller responsibilities, multiple shipping services interacting internationally may have implications, etc.). Also, improper packaging that may be likely to damage an item during or after shipping may be a seller failure before shipping that is recoverable.

True, but proving improper packaging absent insurance and tracking is extremely difficult to isolate and prove in U.S. small claims. Just think about what are the requirements needed to prove a seller was the primary reason why your package arrived damaged. Usually situations involving blatant seller packaging negligence are few, most are not so black and white. Moreover, although a seller can abide by all of the terms in their stated user agreement in online auctions such as ebay, the seller cannot control any actions that occur once they deliver the package to the shipping company. Without paying for the optional insurance, a prudent buyer has considerably reduced what little protection their package has, to nearly nill.

I concur about the added difficulties involving international shipping and the use of deputy business services as well. I believe this is partly one reason why so many DSes require shipment only be made using EMS. EMS is more expensive, but, it includes insurance and is trackable.

Please do not condescend Doug, many people contributed to this discussion getting slightly off-track including you. I specifically included examples of other vendors/cel sellers such as UH, to share a divergent POV on your comment about, "...the predominant [ebay]view...". What is actually practiced and "predominant view" is quite the contrary. The vast majority of sellers on ebay and other online sellers still offer insurance as an -optional- service that buyers pay for. This has everything to so with the issue at hand.

Your other comment that, "... even if the item is uninsured, the seller is probably going to have to give a refund in case" is also questionable. So many bad sellers get away with not offering and providing refunds it is disgusting. Even in the rare instances when a seller does give the buyer a refund and/or gets a negative, it does little to prevent and/or discourage abuse. Generally when a package is uninsured and it gets damaged, the buyer is SOL, not the seller. Buyers can protest and file a claim with ebay, but it does little to resolve the situation. Leaving a negative is hardly an effective deterrent, and even in extreme cases, banning a seller does little to resolve the situation since sellers can easily open a new account.

Although the TOS within ebay state otherwise, ebay is not going to slam their bread and butter. Collectively the sellers not the buyers are much more valuable. Furthermore, there are still ways to circumvent the possibility of people filing a claim with ebay or paypal. The most obvious of which is to not accept paypal as a form of payment. When sellers accept USPS MOs there is almost no chance for the buyer to get the monies refunded or retroactively frozen the way it does happen with paypal. Unsurprisingly, this is one reason why USPS MOs remain so popular as an alternative auction payment.

As for what is and is not legally binding, although ebay's TOS generally do trump the sellers specific terms... again, without purchasing the optional insurance it is incredibly difficult for a disgruntled buyer to prove their claim of seller negligence in small claims court. Small claims court is typically the last resort buyers have available and this has everything to do with the issue at hand.

I'm sorry if I sounded condescending; I didn't mean to be. As for staying on track, I was trying to give the original poster a few thoughts on what to do in the specific situation, but perhaps my mind wandered into other areas.

I was looking on the internet this morning for guidance on this issue beyond eBay, and I found surprisingly little. Here's one for your consideration, from the Consumer Protection Board of New York State:

"Generally, you do not need to buy optional shipping insurance. It's the shipper's responsibility to make sure your package arrives safely."

Of course, that's sort of weasel wording. I mean, what does "generally" mean? And I'm sure one can find other jurisdictions saying different things, as Ted suggests.

I do think I may have overstated the refund possibility. What I really meant is that eBay may try to get the seller to refund the money, but it's up to the seller whether to pay it or not, obviously. Of course, the seller might be suspended from selling on eBay if he/she doesn't.

Having said that, I'd better get off this thread before I annoy anybody else! I would like to hear the original poster's final outcome when that happens, however.

If an item shows up damaged and you had the option of buying insurance, the standard eBay protection policy doesn't cover it.

And the items need to be above $25 each for the eBay standard policy.

Paypal is sorta convoluted and boils down to "
The item is unusable and was not disclosed as such. For example, if there are missing major parts or components, will not function or turn on, or spoiled or past a relevant date. (NOTE: this applies to the item in its received state, no matter what the condition when it was shipped.);"

which I guess means if it shows up damaged (even without buying insurance) paypal covers you.

But since paypal also has a $25 processing fee per item, I'm not covered there either.

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This is all assuming I would file a claim. What I'd prefer is an explaination of why the seller used different packaging.