Cels destroyed during shipping?

No, just the sleeve, no cardboard included for extra support. If it was a larger order then they would put 2 sleeves in with my cels. But that's all I would get.

I disagree. If a buyer refuses not to purchase insurance or delivery confirmation, then the buyer should not complain as to what condition the item arrives in(if it arrives at all).

If you've ever sent to Italy, you'd know that the PO there is notorious for taking items/money and the liklihood of the item arriving is slim. They're also incredibly slow(ie. EMS takes about 3wks to arrive to its destination in Italy). Whenever I send to Italy, I strongly urge the buyer to purchase either EMS or registered mail service as it provides a tracking number and offers some sort of insurance($30 in the case of registered, $100 for EMS unless additional insurance in purchased). In all cases but one, all Italians who I have sent to who chose not to purchase insurance did not receive their item.

I generally charge a higher basic shipping rate due to the materials I use and that I also add some sort of insurance or delivery confirmation(I've had some PO branches tell me that I couldn't used DC if the item was not being sent priority). I also do offer additional insurance on the item for an additional fee, and if that insurance is not purchased, then I refused to take liability for that item if it is damaged or lost.

However, I do feel that it is the seller's responsibility to make sure the item is properly packaged. I use bubble envelopes, tape, cardboard, plastic folders, etc. to send items. I try my best to make sure the item gets to the location in the best condition possible, however, I can't prevent whatever manhandling the PO does and if the buyer chooses not to buy insurance for their item, then the seller should not be liable for the item.

Since the above post appears directed to the remarks I made earlier, I'd like to respond.

First of all, I'm sure I have no idea about shipping problems between the US and Italy. In this topic, however, the issue was shipping from Japan to the US, and neither country's postal service seems to have the problems you describe.

But back to the question of who is responsible for delivery. I said that there is some debate over this on the eBay discussion boards, but I have to say that I think the predominant view agrees with mine: that it's the seller's responsibility to deliver the item whether the buyer gets insurance or not. And even if the item is uninsured, the seller is probably going to have to give a refund in case of loss or breakage.

Here's what eBay's TOS say: "eBay's item not received...policy requires sellers to deliver items they have sold on eBay and have received payment for. Sellers who fail to deliver items to buyers...may face possible account restriction and suspension."

Given this, I think it's pretty risky for a seller to ship without insurance (if the item is valuable) and delivery confirmation (in all cases). You can try to get buyers to pay for this if you like, but if they won't, I think you're taking a real risk by not providing it yourself.

I understand both Cutiebunny and Doug's POV on the packaging and insurance topic, but I'd like to share a couple of thoughts on this matter. Before I begin I want to clarify, although my comments may seem pro-sellers I am not. I am however, pro-taking responsiblity and every reasonable precaution to ensure items arrive from one party to another.

First, regardless if a seller does or does not pay for the insurance and whether or not if they require it, IMO they are by no means responsible once the package (assuming reasonable care was exercised protecting the products) is mailed out. This is typically why the USPS encourages people to purchase these OPTIONAL services whenever you mail out valuable item(s).

Second, [color=#00ccff][b]the predominent practice for insurance and delivery confirmation costs on evilbay and online purchases in generally, is the costs are almost ALWAYS clearly stated as THE RESPONSIBLITY of the BUYER to purchase and not the seller to provide at their own expense. Rarely -if ever- will you find on evilbay auctions and certainly NOT on YJP auctions a seller who agrees to pay the insurance and/or the tracking costs![/color][/b] There are valid reasons why the MAJORITY of sellers do not pay for the services. The first and foremost reason is if you want the extra service as the buyer, the ONUS IS ON YOU TO PAY FOR IT. Sellers generally just do NOT pay for these services. This practice applies to almost all types of auctions, online purchases from various sized companies, and even trading on message boards/forums.

Third, usually if a buyer decides against paying the extra fees to cover insurance and/or tracking -domestically and/or internationally- they acknowledge and relinquish the seller from any responsiblity. Most of us have all purchased cels from on-line cel sellers and most follow something similar to Usagi Houses's: "If your item is damaged, it is not our responsibility. We feel we take enough precaution to make sure the items are not damaged in shipping. Out of 100 orders per mailing, we have 1 damaged package. However, if your item is damaged, it is YOUR responsibility to complain to the post office/worker who bent them. We cannot and will not refund money. It is not our fault. We WILL help you with your insurance claim. Insurance is mandatory on every order and is calculated in your shipping and handling charge. Usagi's House will cooperate with you to help get your money from the Post Office. IF YOUR ITEM IS DAMAGED, OPEN IT UP IN FRONT OF A POSTAL WORKER." These terms are much more detailed than what most sellers and dealers explicitly state on their websites, but in general the action stated by UH is pretty much all a seller will do for buyers. If anyone does not agree with these terms then they might want to reconsider generally purchasing cels from dealers on-line, b/c this is the standard practice.

To clarify, I am not blaming gront and/or claiming you deserved what happened. However, as most of us are aware whenever we decide against paying insurance and/or tracking, we accept and take responsiblity for the RISK that our package and the valuable contents within may arrive damaged. [color=#00ccff][b]IMO the buyer usually faces much greater risk when purchasing cels, but it is precisely b/c they face such risks they NEED to pay for insurance to protect themselves![/color][/b] Ultimately, regardless of how well a seller packs items, at least from a small claims court perspective, if a buyer does not pay extra for at least insurance, they have almost no chance in winning a judgment.

Lastly, on that note as a buyer I always pay for insurance, just as a precaution to protect myself in a worse case scenario, so at least I can attempt to get the value of the product(s) refunded to me through filing an insurance claim, and if needed due to fraud and/or complete negligence on the sellers part, take them to small claims. I hope this helps shed light on this somewhat painful situation. Good luck.

This discussion has gotten off the track once again. Usagi's House terms of service are certainly typical for the kinds of things sellers say, but they don't have anything to do with eBay's policies, which is what the original poster has to deal with.

You know, sellers can say all sorts of things in their TOS, but this doesn't mean that they're legally binding. And in the case of eBay purchases, I'm suggesting to you all that sellers who try to protect themselves by leaving the insurance decision up to the buyer will find this irrelevant if the buyer files a claim with eBay or PayPal.