how expensive is animation?

A question for those of you who have connections to various studios both foreign and domestic:

Roughly how much does it cost in USD to produce one episode of TV-quality animation for the average studio (assume episode = 24 minutes)? It doesn't have to be a Japanese or other Asian studio as this isn't necessarily an anime question. (although studios of some countries tend to run cheaper than others)

I'm curious about the actual numbers as I'd guess it's something in between $15-30k... but I'd like to hear from someone who actually knows or does better research than I do/can. That number is mostly a guess based on quoted revenue figures for certain studios and a *lot* of assumptions about their cash flow and employee compensation.

If someone out there knows, has related info (production x costs y, which is z in 2005 USD), or has general experience on the accounting end of things in a working studio, I'd be curious to hear from you (either here or by e-mail if you're shy).

Hiya Jason
This is the only costs for production I have ever seen in print.

http://backlotanimation.rubberslug.com/gallery/master_query.asp?SeriesID=20938
For large pics you can read, password is backlotcave1, I will change this temp password after you read this.

These prices are based on a saturday morning type cartoon.
Full blown hour or longer cartoons can run into the millions because of high priced voice actors used and lots of FX and marketing.
Prices to make them stayed the about the same from the 1940s to the late 1990s and with the advent of GC you can cut the costs by one third ,Do to the fact cels are not needed and therefore not made and in the last few years the use of computers to also make the backgrounds, You can take that one third to one half the costs of the 1990s prices.
I was told a few years ago that it costs about 10 to 100 bucks per cel to make a show that included all the stuff to shoot the show with like backgrounds, FX, ect.
So your figures are about right for the cost of a average 20-25 min show.
Somewhere between 10 and 30 grand if all the animation is CG and done inhouse and not farmed out,shows that use alot of hold type cels can do them a little cheaper do to the fact less animation is needed,Like the DBZ type shows.
Older production companys that have been doing it for awhile will be at the lower end of that scale, Newer upstart companys will be at the higher end of that scale because of startup costs.

This info comes from the book (7 Minutes, The life and Death of the American Animated Cartoon)
By: Norman M. Klein
Some of the CG info comes from some of the animators I have talked to over the years about animation and the costs for it.
Jason if you would like to read this book I can loan it to you it is full of info about animation and how it was made in the past and up to the mid 1990s, Let me know and I'll drop it in the mail to you so you can read it.
I hope this helps some.
Roy

Got it, thanks.

Hmmm, yeah, I was basing the $15-30k figure on a couple of sources quoting (iirc) a few Japanese studios on what they make per show when they license it. The articles went on to say that the studios made practically nothing and chronicled the laments of many older animators about how the anime industry in Japan was essentially dying the death of a thousand cuts.

I'm fairly certain (again, though piecing together lots of quotes over the years) that finished animation done by cut-rate Asian studios can run as little as $5-10 USD per piece, animating at 12fps or 8fps ("twos" or "threes"). That's essentially a sweatshop, though.

I *am* curious about how much modern variations on the "anime" thing cost. How much did is cost Studio 4*C to do those Lebron James spots for Nike? How much does a bargain-basement, outsourced, off-model, TV anime episode cost strictly for producing the cels and not the voiceover/soundtrack?

Thanks for the info so far though.

Okay, so I got unlazy:

Outsourced looks like about $25-30k an episode:
http://forums.awn.com/archive/index.php/t-1285.html

But this might be super low quality stuff, since a lot of people are mentioning that they use Flash. (slaps forehead) No matter how you cut it though, it's essentially a sweatshop.

"The Business of Animation" forum itself. I didn't look into it too much, but I'll read some threads later.
http://forums.awn.com/archive/index.php/f-4.html

The pricetag as of 2001, according to a member of the Indian industry:
http://www.indiantelevision.com/interviews/executive/ram.htm

[quote]
NV: In India an average cartoon episode costs between $30,000 to $40,000. Besides, our output is as good as any in terms of quality. Similar episodic work in the Philippines would cost between $90,000 and $100,000 while in Korea and Taiwan it would cost between $110,000 and $120,000. There is Japan which is the most mature market in Asia as far as animation goes but there the costs are the same if not more than the US.
[/quote]

With declining computer costs and given that this is a guy trying to boost his own country's industry, I'd estimate that you could cut anywhere from 15-20% from those Philippines/Korea/Taiwan figures to get a somewhat accurate 2005 figure.

In 2003, Hiroaki Inoue details some personnel issues with anime:
http://www.mit.edu:8001/afs/athena.mit.edu/user/r/e/rei/WWW/manga-inoue.html

It takes about 120 people on full grind mode (12+ hours days) to pump out an episode a week. Consider a show like Naruto, which rarely has a "recap" episode yet still manages to churn out 15 minutes of original "animation" per week. I say "animation" because admittedly -- I'm sure the studio will be the first to admit this -- it's sometimes so off-model that you can barely tell two cuts are coming from the same show. Watch a few early eps of the recent Mahou Sensei Negima for a truly bizarre excercise in budget animation.

However, when you consider the logistics of the thing, it's impressive that they even manage to finish coloring the thing before they have to ship it.

Hiya Jason,
You got me to thinking and this is not always a good thing but this time it was.
I got on the phone to a few folks I know and asked them a few things.

First how is the costs broken down?
Say the show costs 30 grand to make as they say it does.
1/4 and up to 1/3 of that cost is used to put back for the next show right off the top of that price given for future costs,lets go with the 1/4 for now.
Thats 7500 bucks put back.
Next 1/4 is used for costs of drawings, supplys and DVDs ect.
Thats 7500 bucks.
Owners , Managers, Head Animators get the next 1/4.
Thats 7500 bucks.
Last the other Animators, Helpers and rent and the like get paid the last 1/4 of the so called costs.
thats 7500 bucks.
For a total of 30 grand for the show.

They need to make at least 4 shows to get into the profit part of the biz because the first three shows have had some of the funds put back to make the forth one with,This is why most small series shows have at least four shows to them and alot of others are made in blocks of four like 8,12 ect, they count on the first three to make the forth money maker show.
The brake down can be a little bit different for each studio but this is about average.
Some of the lower end studios do not make any money on the shows but make all the profits on selling the tie in rights.

This is also why tie in products like dolls posters and such are the real money makers for them, they sell the rights to others to use for the other products and this is were the big money is, It's not in the shows but selling the rights of the after market products they sell rights to.I'm told this can be as much as 5 times the money made on the shows and with shows like Inuyasha and the like it can be alot more.

I asked how they are paid?
The owners get there money first.
The managers are paid a salary with early finish bonuses.
The head Animator is paid salary plus bonus pay.
The other Animators are paid piece meal most of the time with real hard time limits on there work.
Helpers are paid minimum wages or work for free to learn the biz and are worked like dogs.
This not always the way it is done but most of the time this is how it is layed out each studio is a bit different.

As I find out more I'll come back and post it for you.

I just thought you would like to here a little bit of what I was told by someone in the biz.
I've never worked for a studio but always wanted to know myself a little bit about how it works.

Roy