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Paper or plastic...
last modified: Saturday, March 25, 2006 (1:47:25 AM)
When things first turned cg and a lot of people began leaving collecting, I wonder if it had to do with them not wanting to change. Like when shows started becoming sketches I told myself that I would never pay a lot of money for paper because it was stupid...but lo and behold, I began buying paper. Why is it that I thought it was stupid? Probably a bias, because it is no stupider than buying plastic. So my question for you is why did a lot of collectors stop collecting? Was it because it became paper...instead of plastic?

These past few months, I've been selling some pieces and I know those that have been collecting for a long time started selling their collections for way less than what they bought them for. Is taking a loss that common nowadays? I remember about 4 or 5 years ago (towards the rise of cels) that it was so easy to turn around and sell a cel if you didn't want it, but now I feel like its hard to sell a cel or a sketch without taking ebay fees up the @$$ or taking a huge loss.

I feel like recently I've been seeing that plastic art pieces have been decreasing in price where as paper piece have been increasing. Is that a coincidence? I know that some pieces will forever be expensive including things like Walt Disney and Miyazaki pieces. But for shows like Naruto and Bleach where the Naruto sketch set went for $8000, I have to say, thats more than I've ever seen a cel go for. Even some of the hankens that have been around.

So why do some people prefer paper and some plastic?

~Kt
re: Paper or plastic...Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 2:08:41 AM
buttrflym

Well, I am one of those people that will never switch to paper. I just love my plastic and I think the main reason is the colors. Another reason is that I love to paint and so this is an extension of it. I think part of the reason for all the losses is that the pieces were bought when the shows were on television and so, very popular. With only CG shows being shown on networks like Cartoon Network the popular cycle has changed but in time I feel that these shows will lose value in terms of collectibles as well. Sorry, if I sound confusing. In conclusion prices seem to rotate depending on what shows are playing on television.


Paper and plasticSaturday, March 25, 2006 - 2:09:37 AM
Leah

Well, as someone who has forked over $500 a couple times now for plastic, and $1500 for paper once, you can tell I don''t give a fig as to what the picture is on. ~_^
But I do remember once thinking I''d never buy paper as much as I was plastic.
To me, it''s the image that''s important, not what medium it''s on.
Probably why I haven''t quit collecting.
Well, technically. I''m still calling it a hiatus.
And just for the record, I am still feeling the evil urge to connect a regular credit card to my paypal account just so I can throw $2500 at a single sheet of paper. >><<
God, I sooooooo need to just walk away.


re: Paper or plastic...Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 2:26:54 AM
Relena

I think some people choose the plastic over paper for the color and just because the cel looks exactly like what was on TV. In most cases I rather have the cel than the douga of something. However, there are some shows that I''m in love with that were CGed. In most cases I find that even though all those shows have are sketches the ones that they do have are wonderful. I *hope* to start collecting some Rahxephon pieces ^_^


re: Paper or plastic...Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 7:53:22 AM
acetateaddiction

For us on paper collecting (which is something we don''t do much of) it''s a matter mostly of what''s comming out these days. I don''t know if it''s nostalgia or what but overwhelmingly there are very few of the newer CG anime I''m at all interested in watching. I suppose it helps that the majority of the ones I have seen haven''t thrilled me much. Of course there''s a lot of cel anime like that too that I still have cels from but, I''m more inclined to buy a pretty cel than a pretty sketch most of them time. Of course the question becomes why is that. Which, brings me to me next point....Color
A colorful cel jumps out at you a lot faster than a sketch ever will. I''m far more likely to see the beauty in a random cel than I am a random sketch.

Also for me is a factor quality. The genga are nice but, the douga for cg shows often seem kind of boring to me not as colorful or as detailed as their traditional counterparts. Which is honestly disapointing becasuse I love sketches they''re often prettier than the cel they spawned and I adore seeing the work that went into genga sets. But, again something about the cg douga leaves me less than wowed.

As for selling the collections I know from a both buying and selling perspective cels have been steadily taking a nose dive all across the board even the things that stay high (IE miyazaki''s) are comming down. Which has two factors. 1) overwhelmingly with a few exceptions collectors aren''t willing to pay high price tags for just about anything these days. Which I think is result of the older collectors giving up their collections to pursue famlies, houses, cars things like that and often leaving a trail of high end cels in their wake (which of course floods the market for a time and makes everything drop in value) and then most of the newbies coming in are poor college students with no money who''ve been watching cg shows and are more likely to spend what little money they have on sketches from what they''re in love with right now.


My thoughts continuedSaturday, March 25, 2006 - 7:55:52 AM
acetateaddiction

(my thoughts continued)

Right now there''s very few people in the middle who can both afford and want to purchase the mid-high quality cels. And once those few have the things they want they aren''t buying anymore meaning if you have something high quality that everyone already has be prepared to sell it at a signifcant loss. Factor 2 is Everyone collects from what popular (that''s not totally true but take a look at the number of galleries sporting Inuyasha or Naruto or Bleach and you''ll see my point) So then what''s popular is going to soak up most of the collecting dollars and become more and more expensive via the law of supply and demand. Leaving less funds for things that have fallen out of favor. I''ve watched this happen a million times early on with things like Tenchi, then Ayashi No Ceres (still remebers when those prices were sky high), more recently Raxephon, and Inuyasha. So you''re almost always going to end up selling at a loss unless you either have something really high end that people are willing to pay over current market standard for or you''ve got something with a cult following (IE the clamp music videos all though even those have dropped in price) or what you''ve got happens to be in the hot spot of collecting. Prime example for me being Sailor Moon cels. The cels we bought 5 years ago are worth a fraction of what we paid from them or even less. In some cases I think it would be more cost effective for me to throw away a cel I no longer want than attempt to sell it.(not that I would of course)

What''s really sad about the whole thing is that given those two factors above collectors rarely sell their nice pieces anymore becasue it''s not worth it. Meaning, that even if you fall into that middle class of collectors actually willing to pay for high quality pieces you may never lay eyes on them. At this point I''ve learned I just should have paid for the nose for whatever it is that I''m collecting was/is popular. Sure I can buy others for a fraction o


(my thoughts continued again)Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 7:57:08 AM
acetateaddiction

(my thoughts continued again)

a fraction of the cost later but if I want the really nice pieces I''ll likeley never see them again after it''s hit it''s heyday and if I do they''ll probably cost even more.

Those are my opinions at least (compressed into a short novel) ^_~

~Stephanie


re: Paper or plastic...Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 8:18:15 AM
60something-sensei

I can''t compete with acetateaddiction''s perceptive analysis, so I''ll just say in my superficial way that I like both paper and plastic and don''t really care if either has resale value, since I buy to hold, not to speculate.

In either medium, I look for something that has impact: a strong composition that speaks to the viewer regardless of the show, character, or scene. A "rare character" or a "great scene" isn''t an incentive for me to buy unless the image itself is compelling. I think CLAMP inspired production studios (or used to -- I''m not as impressed by the art for Tsubasa) so my early collection focused on series based on their mangas: MKR, CCS, Chobits. But lately I''ve branched out to other series that I initially didn''t know much about, except that the images I saw on sale would stop me and make me look. And there are other series that I regularly look at in galleries: Saiyuki, for instance, or Fist of the North Star, which I think are similar in quality, even though I have absolutely no knowledge of these shows.

Yes, I think there will be a boom and bust in prices as series become popular and then fade behind the next generation. But a cel or sketch that is intrinsically beautiful will have enduring value for any collector lucky enough to own it. (Apologies to Keats for stealing his idea and putting it in clunky language.)


re: Paper or plastic...Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 8:19:23 AM
60something-sensei

A thing of beauty is a joy for ever:
Its loveliness increases; it will never
Pass into nothingness; but still will keep
A bower quiet for us, and a sleep
Full of sweet dreams, and health, and quiet breathing.

Therefore, on every morrow, are we wreathing
A flowery band to bind us to the earth,
Spite of despondence, of the inhuman dearth
Of noble natures, of the gloomy days,
Of all the unhealthy and o''er-darkened ways
Made for our searching: yes, in spite of all,
Some shape of beauty moves away the pall
From our dark spirits. Such the sun, the moon,
Trees old, and young, sprouting a shady boon
For simple sheep; and such are daffodils
With the green world they live in; and clear rills
That for themselves a cooling covert make
''Gainst the hot season; the mid-forest brake,
Rich with a sprinkling of fair musk-rose blooms:
And such too is the grandeur of the dooms
We have imagined for the mighty dead;
All lovely tales that we have heard or read:
An endless fountain of immortal drink,
Pouring unto us from the heaven''s brink.

Nor do we merely feel these essences
For one short hour; no, even as the trees
That whisper round a temple become soon
Dear as the temple''s self, so does the moon,
The passion poesy, glories infinite,
Haunt us till they become a cheering light
Unto our souls, and bound to us so fast
That, whether there be shine or gloom o''ercast,
They always must be with us, or we die


re: Paper or plastic...Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 8:51:03 AM
magiktori

as somone whose been collecting for a decade now i like both but of course being on a low income i basicaly search ebay for bargins i like cf sketchs but i aslo am not one of those that lumps cg in a lump the different styles are out there you just have to look alot harder


re: Paper or plastic...Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 10:58:25 AM
Gabriel

I myself don''t find sketchwork interesting enough to be worth collecting on its own. Don''t get me wrong, I do like sketches...just not enough to buy them without a matching cel to go with. I like to see how the sketches relate to the finished product (cel) and without that last step, they just don''t have much meaning to me.

As for prices, not all shows are going down. However, it always amuses me to see people who aren''t willing to take a loss to sell - especially when it was won at auction. After all, if you won the auction, you were the one willing to pay the most for the cel. Is it any wonder when you turn around and resell it, that other people aren''t willing to pay quite so much? Seems common sense to me.


re: Paper or plastic...Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 11:34:48 AM
Cutiebunny

I, too, have not been compelled to spend on CG sketches...well, except some copies from a more recent show, but...that''s the only way to get artwork from the series since the studio is hell-bent on destroying everything.

For me, it''s the color. I enjoy owing pieces that stand out and irradiate that beauty that can really only be captured by color. The shading and tri-ink color used for most sketches doesn''t do it for me. While I''ve been amazed that some of the recent Naruto sketches have cleared the 1K mark, part of me thinks that this insane prices are born out of the popularity of the series, and not of the scene or actual caliber of the art involved.
Not that I can really talk considering how much I''ve paid for many of the Sailormoon pieces I own. But I do think that SM is a timeless anime that will always have a strong fanbase(like Pokemon, etc.)due to the "classic" anime label.

When you look at the collectible hobby, you see that shows generally suffer a downcycle of 20-30 years before most of the people who were children at the time(and vividly remember the series) get to a point in their life where they have the funds and the desire to want to own parts of their childhood. I wouldn''t be surprised that all those Pokemon cards that people trashed when the hobby wasn''t as megapopular as it was, will be worth quite a bit of money.


re: Paper or plastic...Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 2:48:20 PM
kira

i like both cels and sketches. if it''s a pretty character, it doesnt matter which it''s on.

i''ve just gotten use to the fact that most artwork is papart now and the only way to get a cel is if it''s a repro or rilezu. i know older collectors dontlike to look at it that way but i suppose we have to.



re: Paper or plastic...Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 2:50:11 PM
kira

i meant to say cg art now.

god i cant type today.


re: Paper or plastic...Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 10:19:15 PM
Conri

These are the reasons I choose paper over plastic.

1) Owning part of the actual creative process. I don''t care as much for douga versus genga, roughs, and layouts.
2) Owning sequences in cels is uncommon, expensive and just plain difficult. Owning sequences in genga is commonplace.
3) Sketch sets often result in surprises. Animator notes, doodles, un-pictured (at auction time) sketches I wasn''t even expecting.
4) It''s got a character I''m looking for in a shot that really catches my eye.

I have a couple sketch sets on the way that are perfect examples of how sketches can be just as beautiful if not more beautiful than cels.

Even though I''m not usually a douga person, there are still douga out there that are just as beautiful as their cel counterparts. Ex: Some of the Escaflowne douga sketches I''ve seen qualify.


re: Paper or plastic...Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 10:27:49 PM
Conri

The reasons I choose plastic over paper.
1) Neat background/multicel/book setups. I''m still hoping to land my first book cel one of these days.
2) It''s got a character I''m looking for in a shot that really catches my eye.

The usual reasons like color, final product/what you see on the screen don''t always sway me, but they can sometimes be factors.

I''m also a bit more picky over cels (than sketches). It has to be the perfect shot. Cels remain more expensive than sketches for the most part, and I''ve burned myself before by not making sure what I was buying was right for me.

However, I''m real picky with some of my sketch desires too...for example, prices of Bleach and Rozen Maiden genga are about on par with many nice cels.