Makoto Shinsengumi
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Unreasonable
last modified: Sunday, March 01, 2009 (3:04:39 PM)
Geez you know... There's overpriced and then there's unreasonable...

I'm so glad I have no burning need for any of the RK cels on auction right now on yahoo. I know my eyes popped out of their sockets once I saw all those Kenshin and Sano cels come up last time. Sure my eyes popped out again this morning after seeing all those juppongatana cels. I was ready to bid on several actually and then I had to do a double take and go WTF??? None of the stupid prices are even reasonable for the quality of the shots, well -maybe- that one Kamatari cel is the best bargain of them all... It's still overpriced (at least not unreasonable).

Anyway it doesn't look to me like the person selling is completely devoid of knowledge of RK, in fact the way they priced each character relative to each other kind of makes sense. Soujiro is more expensive than kamatari, juppongatana cels are more expensive than regular kenshin cels and feng shui cels are typically cheaper than most. So I'm a bit aghast at the starting prices. I don't usually complain about prices but when I see something like this it kind of sickens me, at least I don't know the seller and it's not like I know if they are fellow collectors. I guess one can say, I expect more reasonable prices amongst collectors especially if it's a series they are intimate with. It's not because I expect some form of "comaraderie" but just that fellow collectors I think kind of knows the market or tries to get to know it when selling soemthing. If it's a collector that I think has overpriced their cels a bit, then I can go say there's probably an intrinsic value in the cel (mostly sentimental) that I am not privee to. For the price of that Soujirou cel on auction, 10K, I could've gotten some of my dream cels and I do mean -dream- ones but of course there's no way I'm paying even that overpriced but reasonable offer to me (compared to the plethora of unreasonable yahoo rk auctions right now), now with the economy as it is. Or maybe I'm just a really cheap bastard and/or a poor one.

Goodness I am -so- glad I've almost quenched my thirst for most of the rk secondary characters and am so glad my sights aren't as high either. I used to pay no mind to collectors complaining dealer prices are high. I really don't care about overpriced cels anyway, I'm not buying it if I think it's overpriced... But sometimes, certain things are just downright ridiculous and almost insulting... I'm going to wait to see who would pay those prices, maybe I'm wrong and someone out there -will-. If they can then goodness I would probably be jealous that someone can spend money like that, that they really value a cel that highly (and I'm not being sarcastic here, I really would be glad they have the means to even pursue what I think are unreasonable prices - note that I use unreasonable and NOT overpriced, since there is a difference). Maybe the prices would go down and I might take a look at these cels again but probably not since I'm still saving for a couple more important cels to me.

Kizu out... Goodluck to people who would like to pursue these.
re: UnreasonableSunday, March 01, 2009 - 4:56:55 PM
reithejelly

I doubt the seller is a collector. Too many sequence mates. They must be a dealer, or someone who got their hands on a bunch of stock. I think you''re correct in your assumption that they do know something about the popularity of particular characters due to their pricing scheme. I agree that the prices they''ve chosen are unreasonable for the quality of the shots. I doubt many (if any) will sell.


re: UnreasonableSunday, March 01, 2009 - 5:04:18 PM
Kata

Some of those rk cels are way overpriced in this newer batch in my opinion. Some of them are unreasonable, but most are overpriced for those shots. These aren''t major key scenes (with a couple exceptions) nor are they "special" in my opinion, might be where somebody else thinks it''s special that''s where different tasted come in again. But personally I wouldn''t pay that much for those.

There were in the last batch some that were nice and were actually ending at reasonable price ranges and were more of my personal taste. Some that I liked were re-listed and have a very reasonable price ranges, which surprises me that nobody went after them yet. >_< I can''t go for any at this time, but sure would if I had the extra funds.

I don''t know who the seller is, but the ID looks very familiar from a few years ago.


re: UnreasonableSunday, March 01, 2009 - 7:16:49 PM
kittens

Yeah I was very much surprised when I saw them in this morning..... They are way over priced and I thought for Soujirou cel costs more than $10K!!!! This is a bit crazy..... ^^;;

I am not allowed to buy cels right now so I cannot bid any of them.... But.... they are way high....


re: UnreasonableSunday, March 01, 2009 - 8:21:23 PM
60something-sensei

Heh. Not an RK bidder, so ganbatte to those who want to bid. Art is always impossible to price in a "reasonable" way, as its main quality is its uniqueness. Otherwise, it''s paint on paper or canvas or cheap plastic, often by its nature unstable and subject to fading, cracking, etc. But being unique, the person who buys the object truly possesses it, and holds power over that moment in the artist''s life or in the anime. So prices for art are often totally unreasonable. Is that painting by David Bomberg (who?) really worth over a million UK pounds? Clearly someone thought so. Are these RK cels really worth a million Japanese yen? Maybe so.But I agree with Kizu: it''s too early to know if Japanese animation art is going to appreciate in value, or if so, which items or which series. So it doesn''t make sense yet as an investment, and love for a well-produced series has its limits. Still, I''d like to believe that our most cherished items will eventually have cash value as well as heart value.


re: UnreasonableMonday, March 02, 2009 - 4:07:43 AM
moonrabitt

I think the one that is insulting is the side kenshin #153, 1k for that shot? REALLY?? The seller must be on something because that is just insane...Now #144 is insane too...Yes it''s a beautiful shot, but with that price (10k) it''s just insane....Yeah I may see a wishlist, but if the price is just that unreasonable, then Oh well...I hope that neither sell, and that the seller reduces the price...@_@


re: UnreasonableMonday, March 02, 2009 - 10:21:12 AM
Cordelia

Actually I''m not sure if the seller knows his/ her stuff, there''s some inconsistency regarding the price and quality. Some pcs are well....more ridiculously priced than the rest ^_^;

Did a double-take when I saw that Soujiro cel...10k....could it be a mistake? I''ve mentally branded this person as a ''zero-happy'' seller. Speaking of which, I can''t recall any anime cel that went for 10k.


re: UnreasonableMonday, March 02, 2009 - 10:56:33 AM
NurseNikki

So many sellers seem to be out of touch with the pricing these days. I understand that someone may have paid 3K for a cel five years ago, but as much as I hate to say it, cels aren''t just art - they''re kind of like stock. And as that series goes down in popularity, the price/value of those sketches depletes as well.

It''s not just the economy, you know? But I can''t grasp why that person is asking SO MUCH for those. I just can''t.


re: UnreasonableMonday, March 02, 2009 - 9:50:38 PM
kathpatty

I thought perhaps he miscalculated the 0 in the yen ending...if you remove one of the 0 it is more reasonable ?


re: UnreasonableMonday, March 02, 2009 - 11:38:01 PM
hajimenokizu

Miss Z - Yeah I didn''t think the seller was a collector either. :) It looks like they sell a bunch of other things. I''ll be curious to see how the seller will move forward if the good doesn''t move.

Kata - You and me both! The 2nd batch is just way off in my opinion and it is the one I''m writing about. The first batch have a few good shots in them and prices were so much more reasonable. It escapes me why the seller would do this on the second batch. :(

kittens - LOL. Yeah initially I saw that Soujirou cel and I thought, oh good just 1000 USD... Then I was like "Oh f***" it''s 10K!!! LOL. I''ve been wondering where to get that much money for other stuff. LOL... I''m sure some of the OVA cels caught your eye ;)

sensei - Yes. I can never buy a cel out of investment or thinking I can make money later. Although my cel sales have gone quite good over the past two years. Odd really. I''m surprised more at the turnover, which makes ''investing'' in cels not really that good of an idea, it''s actually a rather risky idea. LOL. So as much as possible I would like to be careful on what I buy or rather just think of it as buying a car, already half the price once I own it. I think even if you do think to keep the cel "forever" (I''ve heard others say it don''t matter if it''s not going to be sold again), it''s still not wise to ignore how much is being put into a collection (even for wishlisters/dream cels/etc). I tend to spend quite high for my Saitou cels, but typically I try to get the best deal I can precisely because they are expensive... Otherwise I don''t think I''ll be able to buy more in the future, so when I think like that, negotiations become absolutely necessary.

moonrabitt - Agreed. I have a feeling the seller is just trying to see if any will take the bait. I''m almost certain they''ll reduce it eventually, just don''t know when... could be weeks or months... and it''ll get relisted over and over again. If I recall correctly it doesn''t cost anything in YJ to just reli


re: UnreasonableMonday, March 02, 2009 - 11:38:17 PM
hajimenokizu

Cordelia - Me neither! One of the most prized Saitou cel (that I would''ve keeled over if i didn''t have my own opening already) was a starting point of 5K but someone told me the buy out price was around 7.5K. I''ve heard some Ghibli cels go for around that much too... *sigh* Hmm... I wouldn''t necessarily say the seller know his stuff, but I still don''t think he''s devoid of knowledge of how to price these.

NurseNikki - From my experience (though I don''t have many), one of the reasons to buy the best art you can find is that they keep their value over time, mostly this is due to the fact that higher long-term collectors will pay those prices provided the art is truly unique, or special or rare... However for most regular cels, that are usually sold to the public (which usually means the higher-end long term collector already passed on them), then these are the ones whose value rises and falls in line with their popularity with the masses. Well maybe I''m wrong but that''s what I gathered on the net. LOL.

kathpatty - If he removed the extra 0 then yes most of those would be reasonable in fact quite a few would be a real bargain. :) The thing is, the seller has 4000+ feedbacks so I don''t think he made a mistake on that many auctions.