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Snarks
I don't get it last modified: Monday, August 14, 2006 (8:51:59 AM) What has happened to the cel community?
When I started this hobby three years ago, everyone I met was so overly-friendly and helpful. They would help me with my collection, I would help them, and we were all happy to show off our collections. Now I see it all collapsing into pettiness. I hear stories about people getting nasty feedback e-mails about their galleries, ranting and raving that it isn't fair that someone got a certain cel when it was their ultimate dream cel wishlist whatever. They scream it's not fair that someone helped another get a wishlist, when that person isn't helping them in the same way... never mind the fact that those two people might be really good friends and have been for years. People lower ratings on others' galleries for refusing to sell cels. So many good collectors have been leaving the online world, including rubberslug, due to this petty and hateful behavior. And then last night I hear from a friend that a chat session from RS she was a part of was copied and pasted and sent to someone else. Why on earth would someone be so petty and hurtful? All it did was cause unnecessary strife between these two people, and as a result, my friend yanked her cel gallery from RS. When did it get so cut-throat that we feel like we have to resort to such petty, petty things to get ahead in the cel world? When did everyone think that it's not fair that someone has great cels and they don't have them? It makes me incredibly sad that a community that embraced me and was so wonderful has spiraled into anger and hatred.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. It''s sad to hear about some of the things that are happening in the cel commnunity lately. I have been wondering why it''s gotten like this? Was it this way before, but I was too new to cel collecting I didn''t know about what was going on or has cel collecting gotten so competitive these events are going to continue? Work is going to force me to take a huge break from this "hobby". Maybe it''s coming at a good time.
I''m always the last to hear about this type of thing! I never see these arguments. I hear about them later when people post "I quit!" posts on Beta or in RS blogs. >.> It all seems so petty and silly. What''s to argue over? How come people love to make each other miserable? I don''t get it either.
Hey Baylor, I''ve only been part of the cel community for 2.5 years, and at first was so excited I could share this hobby with a few people. I don''t know when or what or why, but apparently some people started becoming cut-throat. I know everyone has their own story, and I have mine, but ultimately there are those that just like to make themselves feel better by putting their gallery down and/or solicit rude e-mails. I can say I am one who has gotten over it for the most part, which makes this hobby more enjoyable once you can get through that. I really think it''s mainly because of jealousy and lies. I for one was involved with something a year ago that escalated into more lies, more problems, more drama. I finally cut those people out of my cel life. Some people have an attitude that their collection "is better than others." Which I think is totally untrue...if we all collected the same thing or went after the same cels, it would be a pretty boring hobby. I can''t say for the masses what the problem is...only that it just seemed to have gotten worse as time has gone on. Some people have taken a step back, others have left, but there are a few that still stick it through no matter what, and I''m one of those people.
Unfortunately - welcome to hobby life! I''ve been in SF/media fandom, ran rabbit clubs, SF clubs and bonsai clubs, did craft shows and helped vendor friends at powwows. And it''s all the same. Insecurities and jealousies and "stroke me, not them!" all over the place. Some you don''t notice until you get closer to them, others are just finally reaching the limits of their ability to be on good behavior. Others just don''t take personal stress so well and grow short fuses. So, you just have to wade through until you find the ones who can be your good friends, turn up the OSTs to drown out the crapola, and remember to enjoy the things that drew you to this hobby in the first place! Ignore the problems as best you can. As a good SF friend said, "If I wanted angst all the time, I''d just stay in my regular life -- "
Welcome to my world. I''ve threatened many times to take my gallery off of here. It wasn''t for attention, or popularity reasons...It was because of the asshats. The people who make this hobby so unenjoyable. When I started nearly 12 years ago...There wasn''t much of this. Sure, there was a certain heirarchy of collectors. those who were there longer than me. If you said something wrong...They''d outcast you. But...The eventually died, and my generation took over. This is when Y!J came up, Deputy Services were born. And the best cels came onto the market. A time where you could get a TON of money for cels. Now, a new generation is taking over mine. And I''m being faded out. It was so much fun. There''s a lot of ppl who are still good in this community. But, there''s even more bad apples than before. People who will smile at you through their teeth. Play both sided. Stab you in the back. Shit. I have always been nice to my fellow collectors. But, recently...this new generation has turned me bitter, and I hate it. That''s why I''ve left RS. It harbors a lot of those ppl. I would rather take my collection "underground", and collect on my own time now...When I can afford it anyway...LOL! I would rather be anonymous amongst the masses, and let ppl speculate on what went where. Sure, eventually I may have a gallery again. But it will be kept private. So what if only a few ppl will be able to see it. It''s better than having all this drama to drag me down all the time. I still visit RS on a daily basis, to check up on friends, see who got what...But, I ''m not involving myself in the drama flying around. Jason has given everyone a great service, and it works great. But, it''s also given people a means to spread this hatred. Keep the shit flying. You can only do so much I suppose. Cel Community Status: SHIT-AY One day it may get better, but that''s up to the ppl who "run the show" now. Personally, I care a bit, but only for my friends st
I''ve been noticing this alot lately as well and just don''t understand why it''s happening. I''m newer to cel collecting compaired to alot of others here but when I first started everyone was happy and friendly. I haven''t had any hate mails or anything negative yet but with all the negativity happening I''ve concidered pulling my gallery from RS a few times. But ya''ll are just to darn nice to me so I stay here.
And your suggestions to improve it are...? Perhaps because I have to listen to the constant whining of Americans at work I''ve become really intolerant of others who can only complain and refuse to do anything about it. Yes, I understand it''s your blog, but I''m not sure if bringing it to light really helps the problem. Yeah, I''ve dealt with quite a few f-tards here, most of whom are Sailormoon collectors who feign innocence at being involved with it and yet are some of the worse perpetrators around. Most of it stems from the fact that I outbid a lot of them for items that they claim are "wishlist"(aren''t wishlists supposed to be limited...not...ever bloody cel out there!?) and/or refusing to sell items that are ''wishlists''(liberal usage again). Then, you have the newbie collectors who are informed by the petty bickering part what kind of a "mean" collector you are, the newbies eat it up and they''ll have nothing to do with you because of what some "kind and caring" collector told them. To the newbies, my advice is this...judge for yourself. Talk to these people. Honestly, I don''t bite and I''m more than willing to help people out. Can''t tell you how many times I''ve gotten up at 4am just to make sure a cel buddy wins a cel on YJ. It seems like every 6 mos or so this issue is brought to a boiling point. Instead of bickering about it, become part of the solution. Choose not to side yourself. Stay unopinionated and stay out of the chats since that''s where a lot of this resentment stems from. Don''t brag about what you won in the chat(there''s a difference between mentioning and "I snipped you at the last minute!") nor your collection. Let your actions(and your gallery) speak for themselves.
I know of this issue and am equally disgusted. The whole thing has no apparent reasoning behind it either. I really don''t get what the "cutter/paster" was hoping to accomplish. Other than bring to light the type of person they really are. It is because of this...how did Poe put it...generation of collectors that I have distanced myself from the community. It''s a shame really. And I too see the cycles of it all. The problem is that these cycles are becoming more and more frequent with fewer intervals of peace and calm.
I guess I don''t get what the big deal is. I know there''s drama, but I don''t see why. And I don''t think you can simply blame a "new generation of collectors." That''s everyone''s easy answer to things, but you sound like some 80 year old geezer when that is your response to a problem. There''s drama in everything, always has been. Where do you think Greek plays come from? It''s best to remain above it, grow a thicker skin and stop obsessing about it. This is a hobby, not life and death. I have to agree with Cutie''s comment about simply bringing this up over and over is not a solution. It doesn''t seem to stop anything or fix anything, it just serves to make cel collecting look like a hobby for nut jobs. It gives such a bad impression because the overwhelming majority of people are nice. All this concern about wishlists, being on the front page, having high ranks, more hits and superficial crap just takes away from the joy of the hobby. Stop looking at what everyone else is doing and focus on yourself. It''s your hobby, your decision, your pleasure. Life is too short for grief.
God woman! I couldn''t agree with you more actually. There’s a bunch of people here that really ruin the fun of the hobby (why do you think I stopped posting blogs). People that, not only love to hear themselves talk, but who also think they own the community and the fora that go with it with their attention whoring, superior behaviour. It is exactly why I left the community. Sadly I wasn’t the first and I certainly won’t be the last. But I think it’s time someone stepped up and called it like it is. God knows I’ve tried to do that in the past and I got burned. It seems like it’s going to happen again and, as ironic as it may seem, again the same people are involved. People really need to go get a life and stop interfering in other people’s business. Calling a person names in reaction to a blog that, so obviously, stepped on your toes because you felt spoken to, isn’t going to help solve the problem either. Acknowledging there really is a cancer spreading through the cel collecting hobby is the first step. Sticking your head in the sand and act as if it’s not there, that is what actually makes you part of the problem. Don’t go pretending there’s nothing wrong while so many people complain and have problems with a certain group of ‘new’ cel collectors who only recently came to the community and think they own the frickin’ world. I see someone already rated down your gallery. I believe this is exactly the behaviour you were talking about. How can one endure that kind of bullshit and still enjoy the hobby? By standing above it and grow a thicker skin? No, I think not. We then might as well accept unfriendly actions as normal instead of the opposite. We really need to let these people know that that sort of appalling behaviour is not tolerated nor accepted!
I really don''t get it either. When I started collecting aboout a year and a half ago, things weren''t so down right mean. I don''t know if it''s a "new generation" of cel collectors (which generation I suppose I belong to), because it seems like it''s the "old generation" that''s doing all the public talking. Then again, I certainly don''t know what''s going on behind the scenes, so it''s completely not my place to judge. Like Zag, I usually find out about these things after the fact. I don''t know . . . but what I do know is that I have been limiting my posting in places just to avoid some of the crap. *sigh* Since when have hobbies been things that *stress* us out? I always thought they were to help take us away from the crap in life. Bleh. Maybe I''ll just go back to reading and playing RPGs. No people to deal with then. XD
Just to clarify, I was not calling Baylor an old geezer. I was using the generalized pronoun to make my point. I could''ve said, "one sounds like an 80 year old geezer." My point was, it''s easy to do a lot of bloviation about problems but never actually solving them. It really does seem like some people have thin skins and get offended by everything. Threatening to remove your (again, GENERAL PRONOUN USAGE) gallery solves nothing. A hobby should be fun and enjoyable, not further strife. If you disappear, the troublemakers you''re refering to won''t go away. Like Zag, Klet and others, I don''t really know who or what you''re talking about specifically.
I''ve only been collecting for about 2 years now, and I guess I''ve never really noticed or witnessed all this fighing/bitterness. Take it from me, you''ll NEVER be happy with your collection if you compare it to others ("Gee, they have more of these" "I wish I had backgrounds" etc.). I may be jealous of some people but I''m never, EVER hostile about it. It''s the same in my dollfie fandom, too. People are jealous that other dolls are more popular or are getting more attention, not having fancy outfits or being able to create wonderful photo stories, etc. I guess any hobby is bond to turn competitive :/
I was so sad and distressed when I learned of this gallery''s departure. Not only because it is one of my favorite galleries, but, also, because it meant pain and heartache for someone who has been a class act, all the way, in this hobby ... a person who has gone out of their way to do nothing but kind things, not just for me, but for many, many people in this hobby ... someone I admire greatly, both as a collector and as a person ... someone who, in short, did not deserve such treatment. But, then, how could anyone deserve to be treated in such a shameful and shoddy manner? The bickering, the cut-throat competition, the petty "I''ve gotta one up you" sort of behavior -- it''s shameful and childish. I''ve only been in this hobby for 2.5 years, so I suppose I don''t qualify as a long-termer, at least, not yet, but even I have noticed these changes. It''s like night and day between when I entered this hobby and now. At first, I thought it was just me ... that I had been naive upon my initial entry into the "community", but, now, I realize that''s not the case. Things really are collapsing, and an overriding "ickiness" does seem to hover over the cel community, at large. It''s true there are still a lot of great and wonderful people in this hobby and in the community. But, it''s also true that the dregs seem to be gaining ground, and doing their best to make it miserable for everyone. Someone demanded a solution? I think a really terrific one would be for the folks perpetrating these petty, bitter, anger-fueled acts to grow the hell up and behave like decent people. But, since it''s beyond my power to make such a thing happen ... I decided that the better solution, at least for my own sanity, is to take a nice step back from involvement in most of the community activities. I suppose people can call that running away, but I look at it as my own way of growing a thicker skin. ^.~ *hugs to ''ya, Baylor!*
Nope I don''t get it either. I know when I opened my RS gallery I was overwhelmed by how nice and friendly everyone was. And it was the same when I joined Beta. Sure there is the odd run-in with fellow collectors but it''s all water under the bridge for me, on to the next cel conquest. I don''t know what drives people to do childish things and there is no cure for such idiotic behavior, just more aggro for the rest of us. I refuse to let them drive me from this hobby I enjoy it too much. Besides, then they "win".
Gah, I hope things aren''t headed that way. I''ll second Zag in saying that thankfully I miss most of the arguments. It''s sad to hear about things like that, and I''d rather think that most collectors are really nice people (which thankfully has been my expierience ^^). Luckily my collection is below the radar and I don''t recieve to many bad emails, and I''m rarely on chat. A minority of bad hateful people can really put a damper on things, but I think there are more genuinely good collectors out there, the bad just make you temporarily forget the good.
I have no idea about what gallery closed or any fights. I almost always hear about everything later when people are saying "I quit." I guess I don''t put myself out there as much as other people. Sometimes I get a "crazy" response to my blog. I just ignore them. If anything comes along that seems to offend, I can just login and delete it. I do that with "crazy" emails. I don''t waste my time. So maybe that''s why I''m happily in the dark. There''s always going to be someone out there who''s jealous or doesn''t get enough attention or whatever but I refuse to let those people ruin my fun. So here''s hoping it''s just a painful cycle. ^_^
Just to clarify out there, this is not really about loosing out on wishlist cels, bad feedback, etc. This is about a cruel and malicious attack for no reason other than what seems like jealousy. As a matter of fact, this was an attempt to mar a lovely friendship. I could not be more disturbed by the whole situationm and I hope that things get squared away. I just did not want you to think that it was some silly reaction to some post/email/feedback, etc. That is easy to deal with. *steps off of soapbox*
Okay, wow. I was not expecting such an overwhelming response. O_O First off, let me say that the only thing that happened to me that I mentioned in here was someone whining in an e-mail that I got their wishlist cel and I needed to sell it to them... like I owed them something because it was their wishlist. When you collect, you don''t owe anybody anything (unless you''re in a transaction). That was awhile ago, and it was put to rest quickly. But I''ve heard others having similar e-mails, so I realized that it wasn''t just me... others are doing the same. And then the incident that Jenn-b is talking about happened. It pushed me over the edge in anger about how childish people are. I''ve seen a lot of childish things, that I talked about above, and yes, I agree, the answer there is to rise above it and develop a thick skin. But this was over the top. Copying a chat session and sending it to someone else was hateful. And very hurtful. Not to mention ridiculous. And I don''t expect everyone to know who I am talking about as I am prudent enough to not mention names. And who it involves doesn''t matter. This is about people being total asshats for no reason (thanks for the new word of the week, Poe!). CB said I didn''t pose a solution. Well what solution is there? Force people to quit sucking? I''m with Wendy... ignoring this kind of behavior isn''t a solution. If anything, I think it condones it. I''m calling it out in hopes that people will think about how their actions and hurtful behavior will affect others, instead of thinking about how to sabotage someone who has "in" friendships with cel dealers or might have coveted cels. But then again, if these people are just that childish, then nothing I say or do will change that.
I wish I could disagree, but I can''t. I wish I could say that I was not a contributer to the problem, but I can''t. I have NEVER begrudged a person their collection, or hated a person for getting a cel I wanted(envied, yes, hated, no). But I am a person with strong opinions and I voice them openly(much to the annoyance of some). And Baylor, I sense in you the same kind of passion(otherwise, you would not have posted this). You are right, this hobby is not what it was years ago when I started. Part of the problem is that there are not as many cels to go around. Another part of the problem is money. The economy is not as strong as it was, and the frustration of not having the means to buy the cels one wishes they could buy might push them over the edge. This is the reason I got out of baseball cards. The lottery mentality. The idea that you can buy something for instant value. I never bought cards because they were an investment. And I''ve never bought a cel for that reason. When you add those two things: people who have the money and buy cels for the wrong reasons, and people who don''t have money who want to buy them for the right reasons, you get a clash of cultures. The optimist in me sees this blowing over. I see the investors moving on soon, and I see the economy recovering. I see wars ending, jobs being won, and spirits recovering. Remember, this hobby does not exist in a vaccum. The things we deal with at home spill out onto the boards and blogs. Once things get better at home, this hobby will return to better days.
Lessee - you got a cel, they contact you and say that it was their wishlist cel and so you should sell it to them - Does that really work? Have I blithely slid right by a viable buying technique? And so elegantly simple (although I suppose repeated viewing of the Godfather trilogy is necessary to get one in the proper mindset to send the initial email--) Above my little writing box is the comment by Baylor about "When did everyone think that it''s not fair that someone has great cels and they don''t have them?" I thought that was why and how fancel artists were born! (Or maybe we should all keep a stock email on hand, to answer those demands with: I''ll be retiring in (10-20-30) years and will probably have to narrow my collection at that time. I''ll keep your email addy on hand until then.)
I am aware of the situation and can say that the two involved have talked it out as Adults and are working things out. It was never the wish of the person who had this happen to for it to be made public nor for it to generate any comment. Yes , it''s normal to get upset when something happens to a friend but thing like this blog cause more problems & hurt feelings by having comments thrown around by people who don''t have the facts. Please have respect for those who are involved and let this drop.
I get it and simply put my solution is to develop a thicker hide and do my best to not take things personally. WC commented, "All this concern about wishlists, being on the front page, having high ranks, more hits and superficial crap just takes away from the joy of the hobby. Stop looking at what everyone else is doing and focus on yourself. It''s your hobby, your decision, your pleasure. Life is too short for grief." EXACTLY! Those are the precise reasons why I do not enable the rating feature, don''t care if I am featured, don''t care if my site is remotely popular. Some people do care, that is their perogative, but if those extras effect them to the point of closing their gallery then I wonder for whom exactly are they collecting their cels for and why they remotely care about others approval. There is no way to sugercoat what I am going to say so I will come out and say it... I do not give a damn if everyone loves or hates what I collect. And more importantly I do NOT seek their approval. If people like what I share great, but, if they are venomous and malicious towards me I could honestly care less. This might sound self-centered, but I collect for MYSELF, not the community. I am 100% certain that all of the dealers and larger collectors who have ever collected cels ALSO collected for themselves and not the community. If any of these individuals actually shared their collections with the cel community be it on RS, AB, the old JACML, or the new spam ridden formerly great forum known as Animanga... it''s just icing. It really does help to treat everyone''s comments with less than a grain of salt or merely as noise. My best suggestion on how "to get it" is to just ACCEPT it -do not waste your time questioning what you have ZERO control over- and learn how to properly filter it. There still are great people who truthfully will help and embrace one another, but be that as it may, they should not be the primary motivation to collect and/or remain in any communi
ty. Some people just do not play well with others. But should that turn you away from a hobby that you are passionate about? IMO no, but it seems like for some -and I am not pointing to anyone or making potshots either- might feel otherwise. Ultimately, as well know cel collecting is an intensively competitive and highly personal hobby... we collect for ourselves first and foremost. There are countless collectors we all admired or once knew who''ve either quit, gone underground, or just left the scene for whatever reasons... they''ve had to deal with the same stressors we are all faced with today. This behavior and thrash is NOTHING new, it has been around for a looong time and in comparison to the existance of this hobby even the oldest and most veteran of us, are relatively new to the scene. The NET makes it so much easier to hunt, hurt, bond, share, and communicate with one another... the choice is really up to each of us to determine how the noise affects us.
No more comments here, please. JWR has asked it to drop, so let''s do so before the comments spin anymore off the original rant than they have. Jason has started a thread about it in the forum, so if you have any more comments, please post them there: http://www.rubberslug.com/board/showthread.asp?T=1693 |
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